The Literal Meaning of Genesis
BOOK TWELVE 183 said, Show me Thyself:!! Moreover, it was not an image of a material substance such as that which John saw in spirit. He asked what it was, and he received the reply, /t is a city, or They are peoples, or something else, when he saw the beast or the woman or the waters or anything.!? But St. Paul declares, J know a man who was caught up to the third heaven.
10. But if Paul wished to give the name "heaven" to a spiritual's image resembling a corporeal substance, it would also be an image of his body in which he was caught up and entered that heaven.'* And thus he would refer to his body, although it would be only an image of his body, just as he would speak of heaven, although it would be but an image of heaven. But he would take no pains to distinguish what he knew and what he did not know. He would not say: "I know a man, who was caught up to the third heaven, but I do not know whether it was in the body or out of the body." He would simply narrate his vision and call the objects which he saw by the names of other objects which they resembled. When we speak of our dreams or of a revelation in them, we say: "I saw a mountain," or "I saw a river," or "I saw three men," and so forth. We give each image the name of the object it resembles. But the Apostle says: "This I know; that I do not know."
11. However, if both things appeared in the form of an image, both were equally known or not known. But if heaven itself was actually seen and therefore known, how could the body of the man appear only in an image?
12. For if he saw a corporeal heaven, why was he unable to recognize whether he saw it with the eyes of the body? And if by saying, Whether in the body I do not know, or out of the body I do not know, he wished to indicate that he was uncertain whether he saw with the eyes of the body or those of the spirit, why was he not also uncertain whether he truly saw a corporeal heaven or only an image of it? Moreover, if he saw an incorporeal substance, not under some material image but as justice, wisdom, and the like are seen, and if this was the heaven, it is evident that nothing of such a nature can be seen with the eyes of the body. Hence, if he knew that he had seen something of this sort, he could not doubt that he saw otherwise than with the