CHAP. XVII. Their extolling the judgment of the Catholic Church
CHAP. XVII. Their extolling the judgment of the Catholic Church.
D etect. 8. Another of their Juggling's is, to extol the judgment of the Catholic Church as that which must be the ground of faith, and the decider of all Controversies: And to this end they plead against the sufficiency of Scripture, and bend all the force of their arguing's and designs, as if all their hope lay in this point, and as if it were a granted thing that the day is theirs, and we are lost, if the Catholic Church be admitted to be the Judge. Hence it is that they cry out against private faith and opinions, and call men to the faith of the Church, and persuade the poor people, that the Church is for them, and we are but branches broken off.
Well, we are content to deal with them at their own weapon, and at that one in which they put their trust. For our parts we know that the true
Catholic Church (nor any member of it, in sensu Composito) cannot err in any of the Essentials of Christianity (for then it would cease to be the Church:) But we have too much reason to Judge that it is not free from error in lesser things. But yet for all that in the main cause between the Papists and us, we refuse not their judgment. Nay we turn this Canon against the
Canoneers, and easily prove that the Papists cause is utterly lost, if the Catholic Church be Judge.
But is it the Ancient Church, or the present Church that must decide the cause? Well! It shall be which you will. For the most Ancient Church in the Apostles days, we are altogether of its belief, and stand to its decision in all things; and if you prove we mistake them in anything, we shall gladly receive instruction and be reclaimed. To them we appeal for our Essentials and Integrals. And for some following ages, we will be tried by them in the articles of our faith, and in the principal controversies we have with the Papists.
Yea, but this will not serve their turn: It is the present Church that must judge or none: For say they, if the ancient Church had power, so hath the present: and if the ancient Church had possession of the truth, how shall we know it but by the present? I answer, 1. We may know it by the Records of those times far surer then by the reports of men without writing:
Controversies or numerous mysterious points are sorrily carried in the memories, especially of the most, even of the Teachers. And for the Records, one diligent skillful man will know more than ten thousand others.
One Baronius, Albaspinaeus, Petavius, among the Papists, and one Usher, Blondell, Salmasius, Gataker, &c. among the Protestants, knew more of the mind of antiquity, then a whole Country besides, or perhaps then some
General Councils.
2. Well! But if you appeal to the greater number, to them shall you go.
You must be tried by the present Church; Why then you are condemned. Is it the lesser number, or the greater, or the better that must be judge? You will not say the lesser, as such: If you do, you know where you are. If you say, the Better part shall be judge: who shall be Judge which is the Better
part? We are ready to prove the Reformed Churches the Better part: and if we do not, we will give you the day, and lose our cause. But I suppose you will appeal to the Greater part. Content! Then the world knows you are lost.
The Greeks, Muscovites, Armenians, Abyssinians, and all other Churches in Asia, Africa and Europe are far more than the Papists; and your own pens and mouths tell us that these are against you. Many of them curse you as Heretics or Schismatics; the rest of them know you not, or refuse your government. They all agree against your Popes universal Headship or Sovereignty, and so against the very form of your new Catholic Church: So that the world knows the Judgment of the far greatest part of Christians on earth to be against you in the main, so that you see what you get by appealing to the Catholic Church.
But I know you will say, that all these are Schismatics, or Heretics, and none of the Catholic Church: But they say as much by you, some of them, and all of them abhor your charge; and how do you prove it? And who shall be Judge whether they, or you be the Catholic Church? You tell us of your succession, and of twenty tales that are good, if you may be Judges yourselves; but so do they say as much which is good if they be Judges.
When we offer to dispute our case with you, you ask us Who shall be Judge, and tell us the Catholic Church must be Judge: But who shall be
Judge between you and them which is the Catholic Church? You will not let us be Judges in our own cause, and why then should you? Are we
Protestants the lesser number as to you? So are you to all the rest that are against you. And what reason have we to let the lesser number Judge over the Greater? If still you say, because you are the Better, let that be first tried; but no reason you should there also be the Judges.
So that the case is plainly come to this, Either the Papists must stand to the Greater number, and then the controversy is at end: or they must shamefully say, we will not dispute with you, unless we may be the Judges ourselves, though the fewer. Or else they must lay by their talk of a Judge, and dispute it equally with us, by producing their evidence, which we are ever ready for.