CHAP. XII. Agree on the way of proof, before you dispute: Papists will take neither Sense, Reason,
CHAP. XII. Agree on the way of proof, before you dispute: Papists will take neither Sense, Reason, Scripture, nor the Tradition or Judgment of the greater part of the Church for judge or proof.
D etect. 3. If you enter into Dispute with any Papist, inquire first what he will take for sufficient Proof, and what common Principles you are agreed on by which the rest must be decided. For men that agree in nothing at all, are not capable of a dispute. For the Principles in which they are agreed, are those that the rest must be reduced to. And when you have made this enquiry, you shall find that the Popish way of Disputing is to forbid you to Dispute, unless you will first yield the cause to them as beyond dispute: and that they are not agreed with the rest of the world in any common principles to which the differences may be reduced for trial, and so that there is no sort of Proof that they will admit of as sufficient: For if there be any ground of Proof at all, it must be 1. From the senses. 2. Or from Reason. 3. Or from Scripture. 4. Or from the Church; but they will stand to none of all these.
1. Begin at the bottom of all, and know of them whether they will take that for a Valid Proof, which is fetched from sense, even from the soundest senses of all men in the world, supposing a convenient object and Medium?
If they will not take this for Proof, how can you dispute with them? Or what Proof can be admitted, if this be not admitted? We have this advantage in dealing even with those Heathen that have blotted out much of the Law of nature itself, that yet they will yield to an Argument from sense.
But if they would yield to the Validity of this proof, then they give away their cause, seeing sense telleth us that it is bread which we see, and feel, and eat after the Consecration. They know this; and therefore they must disown and deny this sort of proof.
2. But will they then admit of Proofs from Reason? No, that cannot be, if proof from sense be not admitted. For Reason receiveth its object by means or occasion of the senses, and must needs be deceived if it be deceived: And Reason hath not a principle that it holds faster, then that sense is to be credited; that this is white or black which my own eyes and the eyes of all other men do see to be so: and so that this is bread which we all see, and feel, and taste to be so. And therefore the Papists tell us that Reason must stoop to faith, that is, they will not stand to Reason when it contradicteth the doctrine of their sect. It seems they are in some parts of their Religion unreasonable. But I would know, whether they have any Reason to be unreasonable. If they have, then why might not our Reason be valid as well as their Reason which they bring against Reason? By which they contradict themselves. For if Reason be vain, why Reason they to prove its Vanity or invalidity? But if they have no Reason against Reason, let them confess it, and offer us none, and then their disputes will do no harm. We easily yield, that we have Reason to believe God's Revelations, about those things which
we had no Reason to believe if they were not Revealed: And that many of those Revelations are above Reason, so far as that Reason cannot discern the truth of the thing without them; yea it would rather judge the things improbable: But yet Revelations are received by Reason, and inform
Reason, and not destroy it; nor do they so contradict Sense or Reason, as to make that credible which Sense and Reason have sufficient ground to judge false.
So that here we must break with a Papist, even where we might join in dispute with a heathen. And how will Papists deal with Heathens if they will deny the proofs from sense and reason?
3. But will they stand to the Validity of Proofs from Scripture? No; For 1.
They take it to be but part of God's word, so that we may nor argue Negatively, [It is not in the holy Scripture: therefore it is not an Article of faith or a Law of God] For they will presently appeal to Tradition. 2. And even so much as is in Scripture, though they confess it to be true, yet they confess it not to be by us intelligible, and will not admit of any proof from it, but with this limitation, that you take it in that sense as the Church takes it. For they are sworn by the Trent Oath [to take it in that sense as the Holy
Mother Church doth hold, and hath held it in, and never to take or interpret it but according to the unanimous sense of the Fathers.] So that they must know what sense all the Fathers are unanimous in before they can admit a proof from Scripture. And before that can be done, above a Cart-load of books must be read over or searched: and when thats done, they will find that most texts were never meddled with by most of those Fathers in their writings; and in those that they did meddle with, they disagreed in multitudes, and where they disagree they are not unanimous; and there the Papists are sworn to believe no sense at all. And if they would have come
down to a Major vote, it is no short or easy matter to gather the votes. And if they know the Fathers unanimous consent, yet must they have the sense of the present Church too: And is it not all one to make your adversary the Judge of your cause, as the Judge of your Evidences and all your proofs?
4. Well, but at least may we not hope that they will stand to the Judgment of the Catholic Church? And if so, we will not take it for our adversary?
No: they will not do so neither. For 1. When they deny proof from sense and reason, they must needs deny all thats brought from the Church: For the Church cannot judge itself but on supposition of the infallibility of sense. 2.
And when you argue from the judgment and practice of the greater part of the Church, they presently disclaim them all as Heretics or Schismatics, and will have no man be a Valid witness but themselves. The Greeks, the Ethiopians, the Armenians, the Protestants, all are Heretics or Schismatics save they; and therefore may not be witnesses in the case. So that you see upon what terms we stand with the Papists, that will admit of no proofs upon the Infallibility of Sense or Reason, or the sufficiency of Scripture, or the testimony of the Catholic Church, but only from themselves.